Is voting immoral?

Posted on November 14th, 2007 at 1:17pm by bile

On the 11/13/2007 episode (conversation started on the day before) of FreeTalkLive the topic of an anarchist/minarchist or political/apolitical split in the freedom movement (the Free State Project specifically) came up. It has come up primarily as a result of the Lauren Canario incident recently where she was jailed for just over a month for not participating with authorities after being pulled over for speeding. Some in the FSP spoke out against her actions publicly which has upset some individuals both political and apolitical. Dale, a Free State member, who xyz and myself met while canvassing for Ron Paul in New Hampshire, called and discussed the situation with Mark primarily. It seems that Dale, after speaking with some other FSP members has changed from political to apolitical and no longer believes voting to be a moral action. Also in discussion is support between the two groups and compromises. Is it reasonable to expect the apolitical to vote even if they disagree with it in order to support those who support them when they do civil disobedience which is felt to be pointless, impractical means to their end and possibly detrimental to the cause? A problem I see is that it is unlikely the political will find the apoliticals’ actions immoral whereas the apoliticals feel the politicals’ are. However, as I point out here, many things the apoliticals do, by their definition as I understand it, are immoral and it seems voting has been given an arbitrary extra immoral status.

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6 Responses to “Is voting immoral?”

bosco Says:
November 14th, 2007 at 3:09 pm

This post is fantastic, it is the exact reason I read blog of bile. Hopefully after much reading, which I will do tomorrow, I can come up with an intelligent post.

invisipunk Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 7:27 am

Quote from Dale: "State agents, such as legislators, presidents, and judges need an aura of legitimacy if their actions are to be viewed as right and proper by a large majority of the population."
I’m not sure I agree with this premise or just about anything Thoreau has to say, especially with the idea of not voting as an act of civil disobedience. At best, it’s complacency that you’ve romanticized in your head.

bile Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 7:52 am

It’s not civil disobedience because it’s not a required act. The intention means nothing if no one knows about it. By not voting he is not progressing the freedom movement. Also, he’s doing ‘immoral’ acts all the time. All I want is an admission that functionally, with regard to morality, voting and buying a beer at Murphy’s Taproom are not different with respect to supporting the system. IMO you are not breaking the NAP here. It’s a legitimate action. If you want to call it immoral… whatever. I’m not concerned with morals as much as I am with actionable offenses. If Dale thinks my voting is immoral… fine. If he wants to react defensively toward me because of it… we have a problem.

bosco Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 8:09 am

A few points:

I’m forwarding this thread to Josh as it seems right up his line and also since I recently proposed that he join/start the Edible Ballot Party in the US.
It is VERY difficult to not participate in the system. Bile’s going to come down on me like a ton of bricks for "excuses", but it ain’t easy. Thoreau (particularly during the Walden period) had a ton of trouble with it and actively distorted the truth while writing that work.
Taors certainly comes across as an idiot, but I must admit the first time I saw is inappropriate icon I laughed.
In the end it’s a subjective argument. It is woefully difficult to calculate which is more harmful, voting or driving on roads. You can try to influence each other as much as you want, but I don’t think you’ll get anywhere.
The point I made in #4 leads to a nihilistic philosophy which I believe is ultimately ineffective but I don’t see any way around it.

bile Says:
November 15th, 2007 at 8:19 am

I didn’t say it was easy. But you voluntarily choose to support the system in particular ways. Dale, xyz, and I had a beer at Murphy’s in Manchester. That beer supports ‘the system’ in multiple ways. I see no way to excuse that action. I can excuse using sidewalks and roads, living on a plot of land that was stolen, and other immensely difficult avenues of support. But don’t tell me that you don’t want to vote because it’s immoral because it’s supporting an illegitimate system when you voluntarily take part in supporting the system elsewhere. Well you can say that… but you need to justify why voting is extra immoral. And at this point he hasn’t. Though I’ve not followed up on the threads yet this morning.

bosco Says:
November 16th, 2007 at 5:09 pm

I just read the updates on the FTL bbs now. I’ll read the LewRockwell article now too.

Is voting immoral?

6 Responses to “Is voting immoral?”

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