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	<title>Comments on: Senate panel OKs bill to relate cigarettes, ban cloves</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogofbile.com/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogofbile.com/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/</link>
	<description>from the bowels of the mind</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bosco</title>
		<link>http://blogofbile.com/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>bosco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 01:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.landofbile.com/blog/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-45</guid>
		<description>There is a steak house in Trenton called &lt;a href="http://www.petelorenzos.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Pete Lorenzos&lt;/a&gt; where apparently a lot of our local representatives have drinks and dinner.  I've eaten there once (I can really only afford to eat there about once a year) and I thought it would be so cool if you could go to places like that and actually meet your representatives.  The thing I like about local, and I mean REALLY local government, is the fact that the    people are accessible.  Around here they'll typically go door to door for their campaign.  Granted they do this just before local elections, but you can at least talk to them.  I've always wanted to &lt;a href="http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/legislativepub/visiting_observing.asp" rel="nofollow"&gt;observe&lt;/a&gt; state legislative proceedings too.  Unfortunately not much seems to be on the calendar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a steak house in Trenton called <a href="http://www.petelorenzos.com/" rel="nofollow">Pete Lorenzos</a> where apparently a lot of our local representatives have drinks and dinner.  I&#8217;ve eaten there once (I can really only afford to eat there about once a year) and I thought it would be so cool if you could go to places like that and actually meet your representatives.  The thing I like about local, and I mean REALLY local government, is the fact that the    people are accessible.  Around here they&#8217;ll typically go door to door for their campaign.  Granted they do this just before local elections, but you can at least talk to them.  I&#8217;ve always wanted to <a href="http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/legislativepub/visiting_observing.asp" rel="nofollow">observe</a> state legislative proceedings too.  Unfortunately not much seems to be on the calendar.</p>
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		<title>By: bile</title>
		<link>http://blogofbile.com/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>bile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 18:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.landofbile.com/blog/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Federal keeps me very busy but I report on state and local level when they bubble up to the sites I read. It's more difficult to follow states because they all have their own online systems and I've not come across anything like &lt;a href="http://www.washingtonwatch.com rel="nofollow"&gt;WashingtonWatch.com&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href="http://www.govtrack.us" rel="nofollow"&gt;GovTrack.us&lt;/a&gt; for the states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Federal keeps me very busy but I report on state and local level when they bubble up to the sites I read. It&#8217;s more difficult to follow states because they all have their own online systems and I&#8217;ve not come across anything like <a href="http://www.washingtonwatch.com rel="nofollow">WashingtonWatch.com</a> or <a href="http://www.govtrack.us" rel="nofollow">GovTrack.us</a> for the states.</p>
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		<title>By: bosco</title>
		<link>http://blogofbile.com/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>bosco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 18:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.landofbile.com/blog/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Do you like to follow local (state level) bills too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you like to follow local (state level) bills too?</p>
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		<title>By: bile</title>
		<link>http://blogofbile.com/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>bile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:19:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.landofbile.com/blog/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-42</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause" rel="nofollow"&gt;Commerce Clause&lt;/a&gt; has been used to justify a whole lot more than I believe it was intended. Including civil rights law. It would seem that if the founders had implied the federal government could rule as they pleased over the states in the way the federal government now does... they would have made it more explicit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is very much the standard. Take a look at the &lt;a href="http://www.landofbile.com/blog/bills" rel="nofollow"&gt;'Bills'&lt;/a&gt; section of the page. Or go to Thomas at the LOC and pick a topic or sponsor. Try reading the tax code some time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don't find that last part comforting at all. It's a red flag. It (and the like) are put into all kinds of bills because the author knows something there is questionable. By putting that there it makes it seem like a one off instead of something they could or would do to anything. History shows that is not the case.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause" rel="nofollow">Commerce Clause</a> has been used to justify a whole lot more than I believe it was intended. Including civil rights law. It would seem that if the founders had implied the federal government could rule as they pleased over the states in the way the federal government now does&#8230; they would have made it more explicit.</p>
<p>It is very much the standard. Take a look at the <a href="http://www.landofbile.com/blog/bills" rel="nofollow">&#8216;Bills&#8217;</a> section of the page. Or go to Thomas at the LOC and pick a topic or sponsor. Try reading the tax code some time.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t find that last part comforting at all. It&#8217;s a red flag. It (and the like) are put into all kinds of bills because the author knows something there is questionable. By putting that there it makes it seem like a one off instead of something they could or would do to anything. History shows that is not the case.</p>
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		<title>By: bosco</title>
		<link>http://blogofbile.com/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>bosco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.landofbile.com/blog/2007/08/03/senate-panel-oks-bill-to-relate-cigarettes-ban-cloves/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/useftp.cgi?IPaddress=162.140.64.181&#38;filename=s625is.txt&#38;directory=/diska/wais/data/110_cong_bills" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here is the text of the bill.&lt;/a&gt;
As far as the constitution is concerned, it seems they're getting their justification from:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Under article I, section 8 of the Constitution, the Congress is vested with the responsibility for regulating interstate commerce and commerce with Indian tribes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is BS:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Reducing the use of tobacco by minors by 50 percent would prevent well over 10,000,000 of today's children from becoming regular, daily smokers, saving over 3,000,000 of them from premature death due to tobacco induced disease. Such a reduction in youth smoking would also result in approximately $75,000,000,000 in savings attributable to reduced health care costs.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Smokers cost us less money than people who keep on living, collecting pensions and benefits well into old age.
&lt;blockquote&gt;(34) Because the only known safe alternative to smoking is cessation, interventions should target all smokers to help them quit completely.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
So cause I'm into auto erotic asphyxiation and the only safe way to do it is not to do it, the government should help me quit?
&lt;blockquote&gt;Tobacco products have been used to facilitate and finance criminal activities both domestically and internationally. Illicit trade of tobacco products has been linked to organized crime and terrorist groups.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This is because you can make a mint selling cigarettes illegally since we tax the hell out of them.  Anything that has a huge mark up will be sold on the black market.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Permitting manufacturers to make unsubstantiated statements concerning modified risk tobacco products, whether express or implied, even if accompanied by disclaimers would be detrimental to the public health.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I agree with this one.

After reading through most of the bill (it's freakin' huge) the Secretary has a ton of power.  It seems he can ban just about any advertisements and demand stuff that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce.  Your only recourse seems to be to petition him and then go to judicial review.  Also it seems to explicitly ban flavored cigarettes (unless I'm misreading it).  What's the deal with that?  One thing that is kind of comforting was this:

&lt;blockquote&gt; Intended Effect.--Nothing in this Act (or an amendment made by this Act) shall be construed to--(1) establish a precedent with regard to any other industry, situation, circumstance, or legal action; or (2) affect any action pending in Federal, State, or Tribal court, or any agreement, consent decree, or contract of any kind.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I don't know if this is standard fare for Bills as this is the first one I've really read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/useftp.cgi?IPaddress=162.140.64.181&amp;filename=s625is.txt&amp;directory=/diska/wais/data/110_cong_bills" rel="nofollow">Here is the text of the bill.</a><br />
As far as the constitution is concerned, it seems they&#8217;re getting their justification from:</p>
<blockquote><p>Under article I, section 8 of the Constitution, the Congress is vested with the responsibility for regulating interstate commerce and commerce with Indian tribes.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is BS:</p>
<blockquote><p>Reducing the use of tobacco by minors by 50 percent would prevent well over 10,000,000 of today&#8217;s children from becoming regular, daily smokers, saving over 3,000,000 of them from premature death due to tobacco induced disease. Such a reduction in youth smoking would also result in approximately $75,000,000,000 in savings attributable to reduced health care costs.</p></blockquote>
<p>Smokers cost us less money than people who keep on living, collecting pensions and benefits well into old age.</p>
<blockquote><p>(34) Because the only known safe alternative to smoking is cessation, interventions should target all smokers to help them quit completely.</p></blockquote>
<p>So cause I&#8217;m into auto erotic asphyxiation and the only safe way to do it is not to do it, the government should help me quit?</p>
<blockquote><p>Tobacco products have been used to facilitate and finance criminal activities both domestically and internationally. Illicit trade of tobacco products has been linked to organized crime and terrorist groups.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is because you can make a mint selling cigarettes illegally since we tax the hell out of them.  Anything that has a huge mark up will be sold on the black market.</p>
<blockquote><p>Permitting manufacturers to make unsubstantiated statements concerning modified risk tobacco products, whether express or implied, even if accompanied by disclaimers would be detrimental to the public health.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree with this one.</p>
<p>After reading through most of the bill (it&#8217;s freakin&#8217; huge) the Secretary has a ton of power.  It seems he can ban just about any advertisements and demand stuff that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce.  Your only recourse seems to be to petition him and then go to judicial review.  Also it seems to explicitly ban flavored cigarettes (unless I&#8217;m misreading it).  What&#8217;s the deal with that?  One thing that is kind of comforting was this:</p>
<blockquote><p> Intended Effect.&#8211;Nothing in this Act (or an amendment made by this Act) shall be construed to&#8211;(1) establish a precedent with regard to any other industry, situation, circumstance, or legal action; or (2) affect any action pending in Federal, State, or Tribal court, or any agreement, consent decree, or contract of any kind.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if this is standard fare for Bills as this is the first one I&#8217;ve really read.</p>
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